Harrassed and ticketed by enforcement agent at Clear Springs

[gsnedde]

Just a little warning to those who like to bring a sixer of beer or their pets camping with them. At 11pm Saturday, Oct 24, my girlfriend and I were hanging out by our campfire at campsite 51 in the primitave loop when truck pulled up with it's brights and KC lights blinding us. We were sipping a couple beers and our dog was curled up by the campfire sleeping. We were being extremely quiet and curteous campers. The truck sat there for a few minutes and we weren't sure who was in it...we thought we were about to be harrassed by some rednecks and I was preparing to have to protect ourselves. Finally a man emerged from the truck, approached us from the blinding light, and still did not identify himself. By this time I was holding our dog by her collar and she was growling, and I was considering letting her loose on the man. The man asked if our dog was on a leash and I said 'no' (we bring a leash on these trips but we do not make her wear it when she is sleeping) He had a taser leveled at our dog and told us there was a leash law there (we knew that but we are responsible dog owners and we keep her under our control) and that we better get her on a leash immediately if we wanted him to put his taser away. He then saw a beer in the drink holder of one of our camping chairs and asked me to come to his vehicle with him and he wrote me a $75 ticket for leash violation and a $125 ticket for the beer.

Yes we broke the rules...but I just thought I would warn you all in case you like to responsibly enjoy an adult beverage or two while you camp or like to have your pets be part of that experience. Just realize that the enforcement agent there apparently thinks it is standard operating procedure to approach in the darkness and not identify himself, and that even if your animal is under your control he will write you a ticket without exercising any discression.

The officer's name is Chris Ledeux. I am going to write a letter of complaint, not about the citations, but about how he approached the situation and making us feel threatened in the dark. If he should approach any of you in the same fashion, I urge you to write a similar letter.

Be careful up there...simply being curteous, responsible, and low-key is apparently not good enough.
Gregg

[hoobie74]

That exact same thing happened to us (minus the tickets) last weekend (10/15/09). He came up late at night around 11:00 or so. Our dog wasn't on a leash, but he didn't see our beer. My wife was asleep in our tent. My son and I were sitting outside with our dog by the campfire. He drove up and started harassing me about the dog not on a leash and the fact that we didn't pay when we got there. Isn't it common knowledge that the ranger picks up fees every morning? We have been going camping there for over 10 yrs and never once have we ever had to deal with this. His name was Chris Ledoux. Who should we write our letter to?

[gsnedde]

This page lists Vonnie Howard as the enforcement supervisor...http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/mississippi/law ... tacts.html

I am going to call Vonnie to get Vonnie's supervisor's name, then write Vonnie and send a courtesy copy to his supervisor, so that two levels of command above agent Ledoux are aware of this. Petty harrassment and fines aside, my biggest issue with all of this is the way he approached us out of the dark and did not identify himself as an officer of the law. For about 30 seconds, I was really starting to get concerned about our personal safety b/c I thought we were about to get acosted by some unfriendly locals. He should have either immediately identified himself as law enforcement, or had his flashing lights on (or both). In a region where anyone can get a conceal carry permit (I am not part of that crowd), someday he's going to stumble upon someone that reacts in a way that will end up creating a whole lot of regret for everyone involved. And I feel that is a public safety issue.

I'm also looking into the legal language of the leash citation, b/c the language says "In possession of a dog without a leash or otherwise confined"...I believe that our dog was "otherwise confined" since I had her by her collar the whole time. I have a few lawyer friends and I am going to talk to them about that.

I am also going to contact the park attendants (who have always been fantastic to deal with and incredible hospitable) and see what info I can get from them. They always tell us to please, please come back again. Right now I'm wondering when well finally go back.

Please write your letter...contact info, at least phone numbers, are on the web page listed above.

[Larry H]

Thanks much for the heads up.
Were the enforcement agents Local cops, State Police, or Wild Life or other?
Please don't tell me it was the park rangers. I have met them and brought them breakfast in the morning. Ranger Greg is a Louisiana Man from Denham Springs and they seamed to be genuinely nice people that like being helpful. Always waves and ask if I had a good ride when he sees me.
I do a lot of riding at CS, do to my crazy work schedule half the time its at night after midnight during the week by myself. I also have dogs and they are part of my family. We are responsible dog owners and have brought Bo Bo up to enjoy everything.

Your A Law Breaker
Being courteous, responsible, and low-key
Causing no problems... a few cold ones, quiet conversation around the fire everyone enjoying the night.
Sleeping dog under your control, bothering no one.

They Keeping the Peace Upholding the Law
Driving a 4x4 with spot lights beaming through a known camping area at 11:00 waking and disturbing all campers
Not identifying themselves causing terror
Having a stun gun unholstered causing terror

Understand their thinking on no alcohol, for you get a bunch of idiots start a big party playing loud music causing problems and a disturbance to others. Understand the leash law, you have someone with a dog big as a horse named Cojo walking around freely terrorizing people and a posing a possible dangerous situation to other campers.

Wasn't a disturbance until the law showed up,
Wasn't a possible dangerous situation until the law not identify themselves and a unholster stunner.

We have all see or heard of this kind of "law enforcement".
Thanks for letting me know what to expect on the camping trips.

I really enjoy Clear Springs...
Riding, hiking,fishing, swimming. Have nice camping grounds with elec. water, picnic table, and fire pits.
Showers and bathrooms close by. Note: this not on the primitive camping area.
Hate to hear about the harassment. Thanks again for letting us know what going on and what to expect


Link to Clear Springs
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/mississippi/hom ... arsprings/
If someone was looking for a little info. on the Place, here some.

My Cheese CS video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK-UTfUa ... annel_page
A two min. little cheese video of me with my new Santa Cruz at CS.

[gsnedde]

He was a US Forest Service enforcement agent...not the park attendants from Denham...they are always very friendly to us.

[Larry H]

Do you know if they (Agents) have access to the gate the Ranges lock after 9:00 pm.
Might be best to camp in the camp grounds with the hook ups, if the Rangers only have the keys to the gate.
Keep from getting harassed from these Cowboys.

Do you have plains on going to 24 hours CS?
To watch, ride, or camp?

[robc]

Do you have plains on going to 24 hours CS?
To watch, ride, or camp?

Do you? I've been thinking about camping and spectating. But, I'm not sure they will let you ride if you are not racing. At the same time, was thinking to do the NOMAMBO SS race. I guess its possible to do both... Although I think I might have screwed up my SS chain today, trying to shorten it to fit smaller cog.

[gsnedde]

Gonna be out of town for 24 hours of CS...if you're riding, have fun, we had a blast this weekend, except for the unpleasentries we posted about.

[Larry H]

Do you have plains on going to 24 hours CS?
To watch, ride, or camp?

Do you? I've been thinking about camping and spectating. But, I'm not sure they will let you ride if you are not racing. At the same time, was thinking to do the NOMAMBO SS race. I guess its possible to do both... Although I think I might have screwed up my SS chain today, trying to shorten it to fit smaller cog.

Talking about the 24 hours with our friend Bill at Dirt Road, he has raced it before. He's going to try to go up bring his work stand some parts and tools to help people out if they broke something. He said in the past you could ride while the race was on as long as you gave the racers the right a way. I can not confirm this........ Can anybody confirm???????

Would like to go up see how things operate, see first hand.
Several of our friends will be riding, like to give them support and a hand if they need one.
Had been asked if I thought about getting a team together for this year. This being my first year
as a rider, I still have a good bit to go before I can ride with the big boys. I am setting myself a
realistic goal for next year with a team.
The 24 hrs falls on my last days off before the BIG event we got coming. I am sure I will be spending a lot of time working on that.
But would like to go up for a least three four hours or so, to watch ask questions. Don't plain on riding or camping, just watching.

[Larry H]

Went up to Clear Springs, around 8:00 last night to see how some friends were doing with the 24 hrs. I did not race.
They all had a Blast . I'll let them tell everyone about their fun

Can anyone guess who I had the privilege of meting........anyone....anyone.....
I say privilege because I got no tickets or worse .
Trying to find the 24 hr. staging area. Seen lots of lights in the Primitive camping area. Thinking that must be where everyone is because nobody at the Trail Head bike Parking. I pull in get out walk around a Forest Enforcement truck. There 4 Cop cars and a large Tow Truck with a camper hand cuffed in front of his little camper . Put my hands out and said I think I am in the wrong place, looking for the Mountain Bike Race, talked very briefly with the Forest Officer . Told me make sure I pay and park in the day area if more than two cars in a camping area.
I left drove in park seen orange cones blocking the road...... You can better believe I was not about to go around the orange cones. Whent back to the Trail Head to call friend let them know I had came up. Can anyone guess who was nice enough to come check on me make sure I was ok. I asked him if he was Officer Chris , he said yes.
Officer Chris told me he could not shake my hand when I introduced myself to him because he had just got finished counting a bunch of money? What every that was about
Found the Staging area talked with a rider telling me he received a documented warning about his dog the night before .
That camper could have been up to no good , I don't know.........
Just wanted to let you know I got to met him.

[robc]

Holy Crap! This guy is calling for backup (waaaaay out there), arresting campers, and towing their camper trailers?? I hope they were doing more than just distrubing the peace, like running a meth lab in their camper or something.

Someone please post more info on this, its getting interesting.

This is really turning me off from the place. They have increased their day use fees, have kept up only 1 of the 3 trails, and now they are clamping down on campers. I think next time I want to ride/camp close by, I'll drive the extra 1/2 hour to Kistache.

[Larry H]

Hey don't get turned off. It is a cool place, and the Ranges have been helpful to me.
What every Mr. Camper was up to it must been very very bad. For all four cops to agree take him off.
Rather have to deal with him coming out at 11:00 at night, checking me being a little suspicious and excited to give out citations, than have a meth camper explode next to me while I am camping.
Did not think about the meth lab, had seen where that had been a problem at some large National Forest out west.
Just wanted to say...I got to met him and he straight by the book, it was a little freaky.

No one could have paid me enough money to go around those orange cones, after I had seen that.
I was going to make sure it was ok.